Varicose Vein Oedema Inclined Bed Therapy Study Alternative to Surgery

Bondatan
29/05/2009 14:43:39 »

Andrew,

I've read most posts about IBT this afternoon. Very interesting.

Want to let you know that I suffered from cluster headaches for about 30 years. Plus: chronic sinusitus, insomnia, swollen veins on my temples, cold hands & feet.

About 4 years ago I read about sleeping on an inclined bed and started doing so. Also practiced a lot of chi kung to improve circulation.

All problems are over now. Haven't had cluster headache for more than 3 years now and I'm absolutely sure it won't return. Circulation is great, sleep deep, hands & feet warm, sinuses healthy, head clear. Will certainly continue to sleep this way.

Do you know where I can find more info on IBT & Parkinson's disease (for a friend)?

I wrote this a while back to see if some interest in conducting a formal study would come of it. Difficult being a one man band sometimes but soldier on as best as I can.

INCLINED BED THERAPY

Google search terms you will find interesting. It would appear that scientists are waking up to the fact that there is something about flat bed rest that does not bode well for people with Parkinson's disease if indeed it is a disease at all. "Sleep Deprivation" parkinson's

For People With Parkinson’s Disease.

A person with Parkinson’s experiences many sleep related problems. Often waking paralysed following what should have been a restful nights sleep. On waking a partner or carer will help the person suffering from morning paralysis to sit up. Now their posture has been altered to make use of gravity’s beneficial influence on the circulation and some recovery is achieved. Then the legs are moved to the edge of the bed and the feet placed on the floor. Again additional recovery from paralysis is observed. Eventually when helped to stand the person with PD becomes able to move around the home and throughout the day will become more normal in function and in some cases you would hardly realise they have PD.
Only to return to the same repetitive degenerating sleeping posture and each night the PD symptoms gradually deteriorate the person’s ability to function normally.

Yet when the bed is elevated at the head end by 6-8 inches to produce a five degree to the horizontal angle, Parkinson’s Disease is observed to improve each morning and Morning Paralysis ceases to become a problem.

We need to test this therapy on a group of who have Parkinson’s Disease! My question is: Are you willing to think outside of the box and test this simple intervention?

Andrew K Fletcher United Kingdom

Tel: +441803524117

All I have in writing, though had some interesting telephone conversations from several people trying this method, all positive.

Study update: HOPE

We are still soldiering on with the Gravity theory and I personally want to convey some hope to all involved with the inclined bed.


Some 6 weeks ago I was asked to go to the home of an elderly couple in Torquay.
On arrival, I was introduced to a man who has advanced Parkinson's Disease. He was unable to hold a conversation, suffered from Bowel and Bladder incontinence, and had severe swelling of the abdomen and lower limbs, caused by fluid retention. His face covered in red blotches and carrying a mask of pain. He was housebound and unable to walk with out assistance and support, using a stair lift to reach the upper floor.

Life for this couple is a continual 24/7 struggle.

Some 5 years previous they had read about my work and were approached by a friend whom I was helping with the inclined bed and advised to give it a try at least. The lady said to me that she did not think it applied to everyone and thought that it was too simple an idea to even consider. 5 years later she kneeled down and prayed for a sign. On a Sunday Morning she read the article in the Sunday Independent Newspaper relating to John Caan's continued recovery from a spinal cord injury while using the inclined bed.
Strangely enough she said that she had read all of the news items, and there are many, but still thought at the time that it still did not apply to them-selves?

The very next day I received an amazing call to say that following the best nights sleep she could remember she turned to face her husband and saw that his face had completely altered, there was no pain and the mask of Parkinson's had left. When her husband awakened they had a conversation for the first time in almost a year.

4 weeks later another equally amazing call revealed that her husband had begun to walk in the home and that he had lost two and a half stones of fluid from his body. He now had toes on his feet, which were previously covered by swollen skin, which had flowed out over his feet.

5 weeks yet another amazing call. This time she was talking to her neighbour outside of her home when her husband walked by and continued up the hill with a near normal walking action instead of the Parkinson's Shuffling movement normally observed.

6 weeks I went without appointment to their home to see the changes for myself. I rang the doorbell and was greeted by a man whom six weeks ago could not talk. I asked him "How are you"? and he replied; "much better now thank you, would you like to talk to my wife, I'll just give her a call". I then stood with disbelief as I watched him walk up the stairs with ease, ironically by the side of his stair lift and call his wife's name, he then turned around and walked down the stairs in an uninterrupted normal pace. His approaching figure transformed from the swollen motionless figure of 6 weeks previous.

His medication has now been reduced to half, because we believe that some side effects of totally out of character actions could have been caused by an overdose of drugs. This had the desired effect and worked within a few days, bringing control back with it.

He now wanders off from time to time to see his grandson playing football at the local school, he visits friends and family much to the amazement of everyone who knows him.

No matter how many times I hear or witness these unfolding stories they never cease to amaze and inspire me to continue with this important discovery. And I sincerely hope that this letter to you all will help in someway to lift the shroud of gloom and evil that surrounds the world today.

Your friend across the pond


Andrew K Fletcher

daryl l
26/06/2009 13:38:47 »

just a quick update,

i have been trying ibt for over 5 weeks now, i must say i do seem to sleep rather well and wake up feeling quite refreshed!! these are the plus sides,

as for my varicose veins they have not improved in the slightest, i would say that if anything it has slightly worsened, i haven't been wearing a support stocking since the day i started ibt nor have i been straining, my only exorcise has been cycling and the odd game of tennis

i would love to hear from people who have noticed any significant changes after a 4 or 5 week period, im not expecting miracles and will continue with ibt, but i am slightly concerned that it may cause more harm than good and would like some reassurance please

i hope this post doesn't seem too negative thats not the intention
alun006
26/06/2009 23:53:52 »

Hi Daryl

Don't be disappointed with your results, because you have been on i.b.t for just 4-5 weeks.

I had a periods of thinking that nothing was happening, but they will sometimes look different from time to time.

Maybe whot you have witnessed is blood actually improving which may cause your veins to look blowted temperally, i observed this from time to time. And the improvement came afterwards.

Please make sure you drink more, as this will help alot.......

I have now eradicated the knee pains that i have had for many years before i.b.t and my veins are improving as the months go by.

Andrew has taught me to think laterally & it has changed my life - more than just being on the bed as well.

I will make the effort to add some new images, i have just had a horse bite to deal with on my leg. But when it heals i will be ready to release them.

I am so thankful to Andrew for not only sharing his theory, but giving me a understanding of how the theory works.

He will always have my support..
alun004

30/06/2009 09:09:41 »

Hi Daryl, thank you for the update.

You say you have not been wearing the support stocking. And there is a slight increase in the varicose veins. You took some photographs, can you take some more from the same angle and same lighting? How were the veins responding to the compression stocking prior to putting the bed on an angle?

When using Inclined therapy, before getting out of bed in the morning, can you have someone take a photograph of the veins as Alun did? This should show normal looking veins and this is how the bed works, the longer the veins are kept deflated, the more the eleasticity of the vein recovers it's ability to resist pressure changes. A bit like stretching a ligament needs resting in order to tighten back up.

Your post is not negative, you are stating your observations and this is fine as we all need to learn. The best way to examine the veins is to compare photographs taken at the same time of day before and after.

Andrew

daryl l
01/07/2009 15:51:04 »

hey alun and andrew thanks for the replies,

andrew as for the compression stocking,
i don't feel it really did a hell of a lot except hold the veins in as opposed to having them out in the open and maybe enlargening whilst im lifting or doing some decent excercize, this is probably just a myth i have had installed in me by my doctor who told me to wear one in the first place at all times!!
tbh as soon as i took the stocking off the vein would simply stick out or inflate just as before and as i don't seem to get much pain from it except in winter, i haven't noticed much if any difference
my obvious fear is that when i do have to lift heavy objects is that all the good ibt is doing i may simply be putting so much pressure on my leg that is never going to get better,

as for the vein itself, it looks different every day especially depending on the weather, sometimes not too bad and when its hot and humid it can look awful!
it also seems to have moved slightly further down my leg by approx an inch,
i think my problem is that the varicose vein starts on my ankle then seems to disappear to nothing up my leg then reappear until it stops just below the knee, almost as if its just a matter of time before the section with no protrusion says enoughs enough and pops all the way to my ankle,

i shall put photos up asap my camera is on charge as i write this

thanks again

daryl l
01/07/2009 16:24:00 »

as promised (week 5)
firstly my ankle, i have noticed that the little red veins surrounding the bulges seem to have spread apart from that no real change as yet.
now my leg, i know it seems hard to see but its actually worse than the photo shows, you can just about make out where the bulging has moved slightly further down the leg and almost looks to be returning upwards in a "V" shape i can take pics from other angles if it helps? and if someone can teach me how to highlight certain areas that would be great

lastly i will get my girlfriend to take a pic first thing in the morning, i do notice that first thing if i look at my leg before i get up that the veins are totally flat and invisible!!
hope this is a good sign??

First Photographs below for comparisons

02/07/2009 11:36:07 »

Skin tone looks much healthier. Veins look less prominent to me, especially on the calf. Though could be due to tan. On the other hand the fact that you have a tan means you are more confident

More photographs from different angle might be helpful.

The veins being invisible on waking is very important as it confirms the efficacy of Inclined Therapy. The longer the veins remain normal in appearance the more elasticity they will recover over time and the more resistant to pressure changes they will become over time.

Be patient Daryl and please keep a journal as your observations with humidity not only fit with the varicose vein therapy and understanding but add weight to my theory for gravity assisted circulation.

Thank you for providing the new photographs and your observations.

Andrew

Denise
01/08/2009 12:11:23 »

Hi Andrew

I found your website when looking for information on Varicose Veins and being interested in alternative therapies, I was hooked.

I recently went to my GP because I had noticed some bumps on the inside of my right ankle and a vein which contracts and relaxes with my left calf muscle. I've never been a partciularly large person and have always been fit and exercised well but over the past year I lost 1 stone in weight due to taking up running.

Anyway, my GP was totally dismissive and told me that I was getting old (I'm 38) and they were varicose veins. He said I could get cosmetic surgery done on them but not under the NHS because they aren't causing me any problems.

I was really upset by his attitude and although the veins aren't that noticeable and I'm not 100% sure they are varicose, I decided to try your IBT. My husband used bricks to raise the bed to the recommended incline and we have been sleeping like this for a week now.

My husband doesn't get up in the night to go to the toilet like he usually does, he doesn't snore as much and we both feel really refreshed when we wake up.

With regard to my veins, they are flat when I wake in the morning but become raised when I start moving about. However, my husband is convinced that the vein on my left calf is starting to flatten slightly.

I have noticed over the past couple of days that by mid afternoon, the bumps on my ankle and the vein on my calf seem to lessen almost completely and stay that way for the rest of the evening.

Am I being a bit optimistic that they will disappear completely and that this is a good sign?

Regards.

Denise Bunce

Denise
01/08/2009 12:32:47 »

Thanks for the IT instructions Andrew. As you can probably tell, I'm a bit of a technophobe. happy I've managed to paste my original message to you on here so there's a start!

I've read through the entire thread from Daryl, Karen, Alun, etc and it's all very interesting.

I would like to take part in your study if you want me to. Next hurdle will be downloading pics on here! wink

I have now been sleeping on an inclined bed for 10 nights.

I have a prominent/varicose vein on my left calf over the muscle. It isn't very big and I noticed it in a lift mirror whilst on holiday about last September. That's not to say it wasn't there before but I don't tend to go round looking at the back of my legs for fear of walking into something!

I also have some flesh coloured bumps on the inside of my right leg down near my ankle with no visible vein beneath.

I'm 38, I'm very slim (size 6/8, 5' 6" tall) and I do masses of fast walking, running, cycling and horse riding so I'm pretty fit.

Anyway, these lumpy veiny things are knocking my self confidence a bit even though they aren't that noticeable and finding this study has been quite exciting especially hearing about and seeing photos of shrinking veins!

We have a memory foam mattress and my other half has put 2 bricks under the head end one brick under the middle section so we have the right incline.

My hubby is a light sleeper/insomniac. Since inclining the bed, he has been sleeping like a proverbial log. Also, he tends to get up most nights to go to the loo and this has stopped. The best thing is that the snoring has almost stopped completely too so he is a convert already.

As for me, I'm Mrs Impatient and keep getting told off for expecting immediate results with this therapy. I sleep well but am waking up feeling very refreshed. My ankle lumps are always well up in the morning when I get up and stay that way until about 4pm when they start to subside a little and virtually disappear towards the end of the day. The calf vein does the same. I'm not sure whether this is down to IBT as I never studied them so closely before this!

When I am relaxed, my calf vein virtually disappears. It is only prominent when I am moving about and it contracts and relaxes with each step. I'm not sure it is varicose but it does appear to be slightly smaller than it was and ever so slightly flatter.

The little lumpy bits seem to ache since I started IBT. They don't hurt at all to touch and it might even be something to do with my running as that does make my legs ache from time to time.

My hubby is working away but is home tonight so I will get him to do his David Bailey impersonation and get some photos so you can all laugh at my sparrow legs

A couple of questions for you old hands at IBT;

1. If you go on holiday and sleep flat for a few nights, will the veins come back?

2. Do the raised areas flatten and disappear completely over time?

Oh well, enough rambling. I have 7 guinea pigs to muck out in between rain showers!

04/08/2009 14:06:27 »

Hi Denise

Glad you found us and welcome to Nakedscientists.

Thank you for adding your observations to this thread. The more people that find us the more the argument for inclining the bed the opposite way around to what the medical profession are currently recommending will “eventually” be realised.

It takes around 4 weeks for the veins to begin to respond to the pressure / tension changes in the venous return blood. Why it takes 4 weeks I have no idea, it is based upon many people who have already used this technique.

To post pictures effectively open a photobucket account or flicker account and upload your photographs to it. Then copy the link it generates for message boards into your post, select preview and if all is ok hit the post button.

Using this method will give better resolution than uploading to the forum.

The link should look like this

Not sure about the fleshy coloured bumps, maybe someone on the forum can help you with this.

Great that your hubby is open minded too and willing to give this a go. And the snoring stopping will bring about other bonuses no doubt.

When people go on Holliday they often take some strong plastic bed risers with them, these can be purchased from a chemist or even online on ebay and they fit inside each other so don’t take up too much room.

Sleeping flat for a week may well make the veins swell again but over time the veins will become less able to stretch and should resist pressure changes from sleeping flat occasionally.

Andrew

alun006
06/08/2009 22:10:06 »

Hi Denise

Yes i am impatient person when it comes to most things, so i can relate to whot you are saying their.

Thankyou for confirming the fact that your veins actually get better as the day goes on, this is a observation that i also made and believe this is actually i.b.t working for you.

Even after 13 months on i.b.t, i have days were i may see the veins swell. But know off experience that this is mainly a temporary thing due to the weather or other factors. The fact is that i have had the vv for more than 15 years and did not expect it to be a quick fix, but a slow process that has and is making progress month by month.

Initially Andrew has seen progress that has been as soon as 4 weeks, as i did. But for a vein the size of mine i have had to be a bit more patient.

I will always feel that the next photo will show no progress cosmetically, but am proved wrong each time.

I have noticed a increase in spider veins on my left ankle, and this has some whot disappointed me. But with a increase in pressure due to the big v vein decreasing in size on my left calf, maybe this could be a explanation for this change.

MOST IMPORTANT
I had a very bad sporadic pain that has been present since birth. I would suffer from this in the knee area many times in a week. Pain killers were essential and i had a operation to rectify this at a very young child. It never worked.

I.B.T has decreased this by 1 every 3 weeks if that - this is amazing in itself. ( I used to get as many as 3 attacks a week on average.

I am sure this will be eradicated very soon on I.B.T

I have also now gettin rid of my hay fever that i have had for the past 10 year's - hurray grin

I feel it is very important to always increase your water intake with i.b.t, as it has always seemed to give me a detox on a regular basis.

HERE IS A EXAMPLE OF THE IMPROVEMENT I HAVE SEEN.
I HAVE NOT MANIPULATED THESE PHOTOS EXCEPT FROM PLACING THEM ON THE BACKGROUND CANVESS
PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT POINT 1 - This shows a full disappearance below it of at least a 5 inch vv that was their from the start..
As well as better looking and healthier leg - Many other areas can be seen to be decreasing in size........

Can you spot any more? - Have a look on my knee, their was a vv that has now gone..(just below the letter P on the word Point)

Your pictures viewed larger in this link: i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn36 … -1-IBT.jpg Are amazing, phenomenal improvements in your varicose veins. The skin colour on your legs is far healthier and indicates you could be wearing shorts outdoors. I remember you saying you have done so while visiting the beach.

And let’s not forget that you no longer need to wear those dreadful compressing stockings. I saw a guy down in Brixham who had a pair on only yesterday as we drove through. Definitely not good for ones self esteem.

The large varicose vein on the back of your leg “calf muscle area” has not been mentioned, could we have an updated photograph of it please?

Looking forward very much to when your son starts the inclined therapy too.

The pain that has been constantly present since birth in you knee and now only present occasionally is another pointer to what is happening to the nervous system and adds credence to my extensive work helping people with neurological conditions.

Neuropathic pain does not respond well to medication.
Multiple sclerosis:
Pain in particular often becomes more intense when people sleep flat. I suspect this is pressure related. Yet people with ms that use the Inclined Bed method find that retiring to bed provides a much-welcomed relief from pain.

Andrew

geordiejulie
07/08/2009 20:38:12 »

Hi Andrew

Just a quick note.

In November of last year I noticed some spotting in front of my eyes. Being a regular user of glasses since the age of about 12 I went to my optician and had a thorough eye examination and drops put in my eyes so the optician could check my eye health. The optician reported the backs of my eyes as healthy with a slight change of prescription. The spotting he put down to a general degeneration of pieces of gel detaching themselves from the back of the eye. This is still apparent from time to time.

What has amazed me today though is that I found my prescription from last November and also the one I had from the year previous to this(2007)
There are improvements to the sight in both eyes! This is down in black and white and quite frankly I'm stunned. I mean when the optician said there were changes I naturally presumed he meant worse, not better!

Julie, thank you so much for posting these observations. Many such reports have been provided from people using Inclined Therapy over the years. One would think that the RNIB charity would welcome such a practical simple application for assisting someone with visual impairment, yet they failed miserably to respond when two ladies unrelated and both registered as severely visually impaired with supposedly irreversible optic nerve damage both tilted their beds around the same time during a pilot study for people with ms. Both ophthalmologists wrote to me within a month of each other asking the same question. “How can two blocks of wood under a persons bed restore a persons sight?” This is exactly what happened to two totally unrelated people in two different towns over the same time scale.

One would have believed at the time that any charity that collects money for the blind would be compelled to investigate such claims. Wrong, that familiar brick wall appears in so many places. Guess they care more about their £millions than finding out if tilting a bed could help a person see again.

I will post the letters from the RNIB and my letters for all to see when I have time.

Thanks again Julie

All the best

Andrew