Varicose Vein Oedema Inclined Bed Therapy Study Alternative to Surgery

beachbhoy
20/01/2010 07:47:54 »

Hello all, I have recently started IBT (within the last few days). I have had varicose veins developing since my late teen years which run in my family and I just happen to have had the worst case. They were never noticable in feeling (although clearly visible) until Oct last year when I started to 'feel'them. Not painful but kind of wierd. I was in the UK at the time so it may have been down to cold weather which my body hadn't really experienced for a while.

Anyway after the unsual internet research and visit to the doctor it was a toss up between a visit to a vascular surgeon who would prescribe 'tights' and offer surgery or IBT and an increase in certain flavanoids in my diet or supplements. Obviously I chose the later. Btw thankyou Andrew for at least investigating some kind of alternative to having them 'stripped' which gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Having read numerous posts on a variety of websites i'm given great hope that my veins will become managable. At 30 years of age this is not something you expect to be worrying about!

So onto the initial report: After a few days with IBT (our bed is raised by just over 14cm at the head with two blocks in the middle of the bed for support) myself and partner have found the bed doesn't feel much different to normal. We have found it a little more difficult to get to sleep but we're having a heatwave in Australia at the moment which could also be contributing. Obviously I dont expect to see results until weeks after so i'll take pictures and report back. My partner has no health issues but was willing to try IBT just for the general health benefits. Her main concern was that the bed was stable for 'happy times'!

As a foot note I went to a local brick yard where they have a multitude of different sized bricks. The 5 blocks I am using cost around 15dollars. I have a bed which looks like this:
head feet ] [
---- So I had to factor in the larger gap above and add 7cm for the middle blocks. I also used two old shoes to cushion the middle blocks and fill the slight gap. Hope people can understand that! I looked for instructions on what to do with a bed frame like mine but they all referred to ensemble type beds which dont have a gap in the middle like mine.

Thanks again Andrew ill take regular photos and hope for results!
25/01/2010 17:49:41 »

Thanks

Having another person willing to take photographs in the interest of science and document the changes due to IBT is a bonus.

It's also great to know that the red text has not put you off trying it for yourself and like you say, certainly esier to test than surgery.

Google "andrew k fletcher" and ms to see where this therapy is heading.

Look forward to hearing from you again

Andrew

OldDragon
16/02/2010 19:59:49 »

Just a quick update here, as it's about 18 months now since I commenced IBT. I've had no further incidents of phlebitis since the one mentioned ages ago in this thread, and have not needed to request any steroid anti-inflammatory medication for the spinal flares either.

Last autumn/early winter, I was actually able to walk into a shoe shop and buy a pair of winter boots off the peg that fit both my feet and around my legs, so the oedema improvements have proven consistent and lasting. The swollen veins on the inside of my right knee where I was being troubled by regulart bouts of phlebitis are not visible anymore, either. Will manage to get some photos of those one of these days.

MG
17/02/2010 15:31:40 »

I have varicose veins on my right leg which gets bigger with each pregnancy. I am currently pregnant and just over 22 weeks. My varicose veins are getting worse every day.

Iam glad to have found information on IBT and am wondering if it would be advisable to start this while pregnant?

Thanks
YES, sleeping flat is a poor cousin to sleeping inclined.

My niece went full term on an inclined bed, couldnt lay down flat due to discomfort and pain.

Andrew

Thanks

frankwest12345
06/03/2010 10:09:03 »

I tried IBT for six months with no results for varicose veins. It did help with a mildly bad back (no need to do my strecthing exercises) and after two weeks there was a discernible lessening of the vv's but then they came back. In fact, over the winter the veins got worse but this I put down to the very cold weather as they are now back where they started.

I have just increased the bed height to eight inches but this made it difficult to get to sleep but will persist.

I would like to see more experimentation. IBT combined with compression stockings for instance. Inclined bed but with the head at the lower end.

I am going to start taking Serrapeptase which is an enzyme that takes out debris from the blood (and has been used for cleaning out arteries) and has some anecdotal evidence of helping vv. I am hoping that improved blood pumping from IBT combined with this enzyme will do the deed.

I think that there is enough evidence that IBT helps some people with vv but I think it is worth extending the experiment by combining it with other things (if it does not work after a few months).


Sitting posture is very important also. Sitting with knees higher than seat compromises the effects from IBT overnight.

Your comment about the observed lessening of VV proves the therapy works. You then mention the cold weather causes them to bulge out again.

Alun also raised this question and we nailed it down to high humidity in his case.

Could the winter have meant that you spent longer than normal sitting in a chair? And is this chair tilted back so the seat is lower than knees when sitting? Does this chair (could be a car seat) apply pressure to the backs of the thigh muscles above the knees?

Alun also used to wear compression stockings. He no longer needs them. But they could as you say be used to speed up the effects of IBT when worn at night. And I have recommended this for several people who had oedema and it worked well to the point that the oedema vanished completely and the stocking was not longer required.

Now that your veins have returned back to where they were before the winter, have you found you are not sitting as much?

Very interesting post

Thanks

Andrew
frankwest12345
13/03/2010 20:20:27 »

Hi Andrew, thanks for the comments. My armchair does indeed seat me lower than my knees so I have added some cushions to it. I usually do an eight mile walk three or four times a week, the only time I missed that was when we had the snow - maybe a couple of weeks at most.

I have already adapted to the eight inch bed height - interestingly, I find myself less inclined to stay in bed once I wake up, and find myself getting up as soon as it is light.

I will start compression stockings whilst sleeping, see if that helps.

I am now on day two of Serrapetase (60,000iu three times a day before food) and will also be adding Cayenne (inc Hawthorn) pills as this is reputed to have a highly stimulating effect on circulation.

BTW my mother's side of the family suffers from vv, my uncle had huge ones in both his legs but actually lived to 98, so we are talking bad genes here so if I can get rid of them anyone can (I am 53 BTW)... see what happens next
frankwest12345
23/03/2010 12:28:50 »

Well I have made a little progress after two weeks with IBT at eight inches, taking Serrapetase three times a day and lately added Cayenne twice a day. I have posted some details and photos on sites.google.com/site/varicoseveinsphotos/

Frank, thanks for providing photographs. The results so far are pretty impressive IMHO.

Very useful having photographs of before and after.
sites.google.com/site/varicoseveinsphotos/

I would like join in the study/documentation of I.B.T. and varicose veins.

I have had the doppler ultrasound testing and confirmed reflux in both legs.
As of 20APR, I have raised my bed 6in and taken photographs.

I have only seen positive comments, but so my v/veins have gotten worse in the first 19days.

Please advise which website I should be access and start posting?
(nakedscientist.com? inclinedbedtherapy.com? andrewfletcher.com?)

Hi Swimmer

This forum is fine to post. You could start your own thread to keep all your posts seperate aqnd easier to follow.

The veins in your pictures are different to the varicose veins that become swollen, these are fine spider veins thet many of us get as we add a few years on. Tight ankle socks are a primary cause, I note you have some around where the socks press on the lower shin, I too have the some of these right in the same place. Mine have not gotten worse over the years

I have read that horse chestnut may help with these, though have not yet tried it myself.

Also there is a new treatment that uses a microwave pen to seal off the veins with instantanious removal of spider veins. Lazer surgery also produces raid results. IBT helps for the much larger varicosed veins.

Hope this helps

Andrew

Thank you Andrew, for your frankness and expeditious response.
I am disappointed, but will continue researching other alternatives.
Doctors have said lasers will not work, and surgery is the only solution.

I take horse chestnut daily, primarily a vegetarian and only wear compression stockings several times a week. They are not compatible w my lifestyle, for I run and/or work out every day, and live/work in an area that will soon reach 120 degrees (Iraq).

Is there an explanation why the appearance is getting worse and more pronounced with I.B.T.?
Should I continue sleeping in the I.B.T.position or revert back to sleeping with my head lower ,and feet higher?
(I take a 30min nap in this position during lunch, and the veins look visually improved after lying in this position)
I went from sleeping with my head lower, to the I.B.T. head higher position over night, and I am comfortable either way.

My only 3 questions are: why has the appearance worsen and should I continue I.B.T.?
And I googled "microwave pens, veins" and nothing came up - can you advise on where to research?

I will definitely recommend your website to everyone - it is a breath of fresh air and hope!
V/R Swimmer

Found the original video. It's the small video on right hand side of page. Microwave pen

www.veinwave.com/home/3-newsflash/42-veinwave-on-tv.html

Sleeping on an inclined bed is something everyone should be doing. I suspect the wosening you noted is the veins trying to cope with the increased circulation and pressures using IBT, changing the colour, rather than a worsening.

Swollen veins do respond well and others have reported improvements in thread veins using IBT over many months.

Head down tilt causes many adverse reactions and over time will cause serious complications. This can be researched using Head down tilt, HUT, Trendelenburg and has been thoroughly researched by many of the space programmes as it is compared to the adverse effects of microgravity and it's effect on human physiology for astronauts.

If I can be of more help please don't hesitate to ask.

Andrew

Andrew,how come this topic in this forum not updated? I want to know the latest research progress of it for treating varicose vein.

I am new to IBT. I have varicose vein, and often feel the pain because of it even it's not very serious. my doctor told me the valves of vein not function as good as it should, and advise me the put my feet higher than the heart when sleeping.

last night I start to try IBT with 4 inch, but feeling some pain while sleeping and I could see the vein became more obvious (more blue) than sleeping on flat bed. I could not sleep at all, then I went back to flat bed after 4 hours try. the pain went away on flat bed. I want to know if this is normal. when doing IBT, I don't know if vein valves are opened allowing blood to flow back to heart when doing IBT.

Hope to hear from you
sky