Varicose Vein Oedema Inclined Bed Therapy Study Alternative to Surgery

alun006
11/09/2009 19:24:31 »

Daryl

To your question, yes i have experienced similar in my time on inclined bed therapy.

I remember, the very bottom looking bloated periodically in the same sort of way. However my experience was that the vein settled down in time.

In fact, if you look back at some of my threads, their was a situation with the very top of one of my vv's aswell. But this was because the vein was acting in a positive way rather than a negative.

Denise, you are very welcome to send the pictures you have taken, and i will upload them for you.

Contact me through the information on my profile.

Keep asking questions guys, i have been their and know that sometimes you may feel like nothing is happening. But in my experience it has always surprised me in a positive way every time.

I appreciate all of Andrew's dedication to this therapy and will support him as much as i can.
alun

Maureen
20/09/2009 20:20:37 »

Hi Andrew,

It’s been six weeks now that I have been sleeping on an Inclined Bed (IB). So far I can not see any further improvement in the amount of fluid/puffiness in my ankles since I last reported after 9 nights on IB. However, this is what I did notice. I had taken a three week break from jogging on a treadmill and rebounding on a mini-trampoline before sleeping on an IB. Also the same three weeks break from receiving Low Intensity Laser Therapy (L.I.L.T.) on my thighs and ankles for pain relief and fluid reduction. After resuming jogging while on the IB, I felt the usual soreness/stiffness that one gets when starting exercise. It seemed to be too much achiness for such a short break so I do not know if it was only exercise soreness or something due to Inclined Bed Therapy (IBT). I still feel slightly uncomfortable in my calves. I have not resumed L.I.L.T to date as I wanted to see what IBT would do on its own. My pressure pain level has reduced from a 7/10 to a 2/10 in the past week or so which is great!

L.I.L.T. history; In March 2008 I started with a pressure pain level of 6/10. After about 9 treatments the pain level reduced for the first time. I had a total of 20 treatments by October and ended with a pain level of 2/10. My insurance ran out so I waited until June 2009. The pain stayed away for about six months then gradually came back, this time to a level 7 which may likely be due to my tolerance level being lowered, I am not sure.
I have had 8 treatments so far in 2009 then stopped. Most people only need 1-10 L.I.L.T. treatments for injuries because they have a one time injury. Since I seem to collect and store fluid on a daily basis due to some malfunction it only makes sense that without continued treatment the problem will not remain fixed. So now with Inclined Bed Therapy and L.I.L.T. combined which I know both works for me I want to go back for the remainder of treatments I have insurance coverage for in 2009.

I will not book any appointments until I hear from you in case you want me to wait a bit longer. The sooner I go back for treatments the better for me since the weather will get bad later on and cause problems.

Maureen

alun006
11/09/2009 19:24:31 »

Daryl

To your question, yes i have experienced similar in my time on inclined bed therapy.

I remember, the very bottom looking bloated periodically in the same sort of way. However my experience was that the vein settled down in time.

In fact, if you look back at some of my threads, their was a situation with the very top of one of my vv's aswell. But this was because the vein was acting in a positive way rather than a negative.

Denise, you are very welcome to send the pictures you have taken, and i will upload them for you.

Contact me through the information on my profile.

Keep asking questions guys, i have been their and know that sometimes you may feel like nothing is happening. But in my experience it has always surprised me in a positive way every time.

I appreciate all of Andrew's dedication to this therapy and will support him as much as i can.
alun

21/09/2009 09:31:40 »

Maurine it is not for me to want you to do anything. Take from this therapy what you want and share your experience with us here, this is the only requirement.

I will say that the pain in your legs should become less using I.T based on many people reporting significant reductions in pain.

If you are comfortable with testing the inclined bed and the pain is not increasing then curiosity might get the better of you.

Talk to your doctor about what you are doing as he/she might be interested in what you have to say as the weeks go by.

The discomfort in your calf’s, would it be similar to discomfort from working out or exercising as if the muscles were becoming tighter?

Are you still wearing compression stocking, if so have you considered seeing what happens over 24 hours without wearing any?

Thanks for the update and fingers crossed over the coming weeks.

bam
09/10/2009 04:30:32 »

I did IBT several years ago and it really proved beneficial. Sleep quality was one of the marked improvements I remember and an overall feeling of being centered and grounded. I hope that this method gets the necessary recognition as there is definitely a good benefit from it.
09/10/2009 18:36:30 »

Andrew, I'm glad I found IBT but I have to be honest and admit that I have not been using it. Its partly laziness but also I feel like I've been getting the benefits in another way . Around the time that I discovered IBT I also found out how the modern toilet is one of the worst offenders to health known to man. In a way IBT led me to it while asking in what other ways that I'm not aware of am I misusing/abusing my body. This led me to look at diet/posture and then I stumbled on this site www.naturesplatform.com/health_benefits.html that discusses how the proper way to eliminate is in the squat position and that we are not physically suited to sit while eliminating. Now it is also interesting to note that the platform that is sold on the site is not a flat platform but the creator has it inclined for people who can't stay balanced due to weight and atrophied leg muscles from lack of use (is there a link with IBT? Vericose Veins?). Also on this site there is a small reference to the modern toilet as contributing to vericose veins. www.toilet-related-ailments.com/history-...pedestal-toilet.html .

10/10/2009 09:09:53 »

I too have mentioned many times about the pressure from the good old toilet seat causing constriction on the vessels as the pelvis plus our weight presses down on the skin fat and muscle compressing the vascular network within. This is inevitably going to cause back pressure into the arteries.

A nurse told me that many stroke victims are found on the toilet, she put it down to the onset of a stroke giving an urge to defecate. I suspected that prolonged use of a toilet possibly due to constipation or even sitting on the loo reading a newspaper which is not uncommon could well have caused the rise in arterial BP that triggered the stroke.

The same principle applies or should I say must apply to the flesh and vessels on the soles and heels of our feet when we stand still for long periods. We have all observed the funny videos of the groom or bride standing motionless at a wedding collapsing without any prior warning.

Guards on duty face the same problem and have learned to shift weight by rocking from one foot to the other, this would of course induce a pumping action on the fluid filled tissue and assist circulation rather than standing motionless and compromising the circulation. Not rocket science either just good old common sense.

Turning over in bed while sleeping is certainly an automatic reflex to the constant pressure of sleeping in one position.

Thanks for raising these points and please read the entire thread when you have time as there are impressive reports here from people using Inclined therapy.

Andrew

RD
10/10/2009 10:02:27 »

Quote from: Andrew K Fletcher on 10/10/2009 09:09:53
A nurse told me that many stroke victims are found on the toilet, she put it down to the onset of a stroke giving an urge to defecate.

Elderly people "do an Elvis" because straining on the toilet is like the Valsalva maneuver which causes their weak heart to stop, (so it's typically heart failure not stroke when people die on the crapper).

["do an Elvis" = Cardio-vascular event at defecation]


10/10/2009 20:16:48 »

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1399412.stm

This is interesting RD

Your point about the heart and straining is also valid

jpi108
13/10/2009 12:25:56 »

The study discussed in the BBC article is summarized here:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11903123

Read it closely and you'll see that it doesn't compare squatting to sitting for defaecation. So, the conclusion that sitting is less of a stroke risk is not justified. None of the subjects used the sitting position.

It is well known that defaecation itself causes a spike in blood pressure. Every year thousands of people get strokes and heart attacks straining on western toilets. It is also well known that squatting is more natural and reduces straining. That's why diverticulosis is only found in western countries.

I've been waging a practically hopeless campaign to squelch the rumour that squat toilets increase stroke risk. I'm quite sure that the opposite is true.
24/10/2009 09:53:23 »

Quote from: jpi108 on 13/10/2009 12:25:56
The study discussed in the BBC article is summarized here:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11903123

I've been waging a practically hopeless campaign to squelch the rumour that squat toilets increase stroke risk. I'm quite sure that the opposite is true.

Squating makes more sense as a means of reducing the compression on vessels which would inevitably cause blood to back up rather than circulating. That said, in the squat position the muscles would be contracted to support the weight of the body and this could indeed cause the vessels to be compressed by the tensed muscles. So not sure now which would be the best method.

alun006
04/12/2009 22:37:29 »



PICTURE UPDATE AFTER 18 MONTHS ON I.B.T

REF: CALF VEIN - Compare this with the photo i took tonight - -

THIGH VEIN - COMPARE THIS WITH PICTURE BELOW THIS TAKEN 8PM TONIGHT -

THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN AT 8PM TONIGHT

cheers alu

Maureen
11/12/2009 17:56:49 »

Hi Alum,

Amazing difference in the before and after pictures! I'm sure you feel good because of the results so far and look forward to even better results down the road.

Maureen

13/12/2009 18:15:50 »

Thankyou Maureen

How are you doing ?

Yes, aswell as the vein improvement, i have also almost eradicated my knee pain issue that i have since i was 3 years old.
(I have been up to 6 weeks without a attack, and i used to have this 3 times a week.....) happy

That is great because the pain was horrible, when i had a attack. But the doctors could not explain this even though i had a tendent reduction when i was younger.

The only negative point, is a spider vein ankle flare on my left leg. This has not happened on the right as the pressure is not as near with the vv being higher up.

However this makes sense with the reduction on my calf vein.

But the positives outway the one negative i have experienced.

Thankyou Alun

Hi Maureen

Thank's for your post regarding Alun's improvements in varicose veins. One would think that here among surgeons, scientists, doctors and nurses there would be great interest in these obvious developments.
These are clearly not imagined improvements and Alun is a very genuine man with very genuine vascular problems and very genuine vascular improvements.
Now the dilema for anyone reading this thread is whether to trust hundreds of thousands of people working from literature that states you need expensive surgery or to trust a man who advises people to sleep on a tilted bed and watch their veins return to normal without the need for surgery or indeed a surgeon!

You could always wear support stockings and put your legs above the heart, rather impractical IMHO and unendorsable considering it has never reversed a varicose vein.

But to see what tilting a bed can do, you may want to read carefully through the posts from people with multiple sclerosis who have avoided sleeping on flat unscientific beds:

www.thisisms.com/modules.php?name=Forums...opic&t=6755&start=90
www.thisisms.com/ftopict-8535.html

Unbiased Independent Research and proud to think outside the box!

Andrew K Fletcher