Varicose Vein Oedema Inclined Bed Therapy Study Alternative to Surgery

alun006
04/12/2009 22:37:29 »



PICTURE UPDATE AFTER 18 MONTHS ON I.B.T

REF: CALF VEIN - Compare this with the photo i took tonight - -

THIGH VEIN - COMPARE THIS WITH PICTURE BELOW THIS TAKEN 8PM TONIGHT -

THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN AT 8PM TONIGHT

cheers alu

Maureen
11/12/2009 17:56:49 »

Hi Alum,

Amazing difference in the before and after pictures! I'm sure you feel good because of the results so far and look forward to even better results down the road.

Maureen

13/12/2009 18:15:50 »

Thankyou Maureen

How are you doing ?

Yes, aswell as the vein improvement, i have also almost eradicated my knee pain issue that i have since i was 3 years old.
(I have been up to 6 weeks without a attack, and i used to have this 3 times a week.....) happy

That is great because the pain was horrible, when i had a attack. But the doctors could not explain this even though i had a tendent reduction when i was younger.

The only negative point, is a spider vein ankle flare on my left leg. This has not happened on the right as the pressure is not as near with the vv being higher up.

However this makes sense with the reduction on my calf vein.

But the positives outway the one negative i have experienced.

Thankyou Alun

Hi Maureen

Thank's for your post regarding Alun's improvements in varicose veins. One would think that here among surgeons, scientists, doctors and nurses there would be great interest in these obvious developments.
These are clearly not imagined improvements and Alun is a very genuine man with very genuine vascular problems and very genuine vascular improvements.
Now the dilema for anyone reading this thread is whether to trust hundreds of thousands of people working from literature that states you need expensive surgery or to trust a man who advises people to sleep on a tilted bed and watch their veins return to normal without the need for surgery or indeed a surgeon!

You could always wear support stockings and put your legs above the heart, rather impractical IMHO and unendorsable considering it has never reversed a varicose vein.

But to see what tilting a bed can do, you may want to read carefully through the posts from people with multiple sclerosis who have avoided sleeping on flat unscientific beds:

www.thisisms.com/modules.php?name=Forums...opic&t=6755&start=90
www.thisisms.com/ftopict-8535.html

Unbiased Independent Research and proud to think outside the box!

Andrew K Fletcher

beachbhoy
20/01/2010 07:47:54 »

Hello all, I have recently started IBT (within the last few days). I have had varicose veins developing since my late teen years which run in my family and I just happen to have had the worst case. They were never noticable in feeling (although clearly visible) until Oct last year when I started to 'feel'them. Not painful but kind of wierd. I was in the UK at the time so it may have been down to cold weather which my body hadn't really experienced for a while.

Anyway after the unsual internet research and visit to the doctor it was a toss up between a visit to a vascular surgeon who would prescribe 'tights' and offer surgery or IBT and an increase in certain flavanoids in my diet or supplements. Obviously I chose the later. Btw thankyou Andrew for at least investigating some kind of alternative to having them 'stripped' which gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Having read numerous posts on a variety of websites i'm given great hope that my veins will become managable. At 30 years of age this is not something you expect to be worrying about!

So onto the initial report: After a few days with IBT (our bed is raised by just over 14cm at the head with two blocks in the middle of the bed for support) myself and partner have found the bed doesn't feel much different to normal. We have found it a little more difficult to get to sleep but we're having a heatwave in Australia at the moment which could also be contributing. Obviously I dont expect to see results until weeks after so i'll take pictures and report back. My partner has no health issues but was willing to try IBT just for the general health benefits. Her main concern was that the bed was stable for 'happy times'!

As a foot note I went to a local brick yard where they have a multitude of different sized bricks. The 5 blocks I am using cost around 15dollars. I have a bed which looks like this:
head feet ] [
---- So I had to factor in the larger gap above and add 7cm for the middle blocks. I also used two old shoes to cushion the middle blocks and fill the slight gap. Hope people can understand that! I looked for instructions on what to do with a bed frame like mine but they all referred to ensemble type beds which dont have a gap in the middle like mine.

Thanks again Andrew ill take regular photos and hope for results!
25/01/2010 17:49:41 »

Thanks

Having another person willing to take photographs in the interest of science and document the changes due to IBT is a bonus.

It's also great to know that the red text has not put you off trying it for yourself and like you say, certainly esier to test than surgery.

Google "andrew k fletcher" and ms to see where this therapy is heading.

Look forward to hearing from you again

Andrew

OldDragon
16/02/2010 19:59:49 »

Just a quick update here, as it's about 18 months now since I commenced IBT. I've had no further incidents of phlebitis since the one mentioned ages ago in this thread, and have not needed to request any steroid anti-inflammatory medication for the spinal flares either.

Last autumn/early winter, I was actually able to walk into a shoe shop and buy a pair of winter boots off the peg that fit both my feet and around my legs, so the oedema improvements have proven consistent and lasting. The swollen veins on the inside of my right knee where I was being troubled by regulart bouts of phlebitis are not visible anymore, either. Will manage to get some photos of those one of these days.

MG
17/02/2010 15:31:40 »

I have varicose veins on my right leg which gets bigger with each pregnancy. I am currently pregnant and just over 22 weeks. My varicose veins are getting worse every day.

Iam glad to have found information on IBT and am wondering if it would be advisable to start this while pregnant?

Thanks
YES, sleeping flat is a poor cousin to sleeping inclined.

My niece went full term on an inclined bed, couldnt lay down flat due to discomfort and pain.

Andrew

Thanks

frankwest12345
06/03/2010 10:09:03 »

I tried IBT for six months with no results for varicose veins. It did help with a mildly bad back (no need to do my strecthing exercises) and after two weeks there was a discernible lessening of the vv's but then they came back. In fact, over the winter the veins got worse but this I put down to the very cold weather as they are now back where they started.

I have just increased the bed height to eight inches but this made it difficult to get to sleep but will persist.

I would like to see more experimentation. IBT combined with compression stockings for instance. Inclined bed but with the head at the lower end.

I am going to start taking Serrapeptase which is an enzyme that takes out debris from the blood (and has been used for cleaning out arteries) and has some anecdotal evidence of helping vv. I am hoping that improved blood pumping from IBT combined with this enzyme will do the deed.

I think that there is enough evidence that IBT helps some people with vv but I think it is worth extending the experiment by combining it with other things (if it does not work after a few months).


Sitting posture is very important also. Sitting with knees higher than seat compromises the effects from IBT overnight.

Your comment about the observed lessening of VV proves the therapy works. You then mention the cold weather causes them to bulge out again.

Alun also raised this question and we nailed it down to high humidity in his case.

Could the winter have meant that you spent longer than normal sitting in a chair? And is this chair tilted back so the seat is lower than knees when sitting? Does this chair (could be a car seat) apply pressure to the backs of the thigh muscles above the knees?

Alun also used to wear compression stockings. He no longer needs them. But they could as you say be used to speed up the effects of IBT when worn at night. And I have recommended this for several people who had oedema and it worked well to the point that the oedema vanished completely and the stocking was not longer required.

Now that your veins have returned back to where they were before the winter, have you found you are not sitting as much?

Very interesting post

Thanks

Andrew
frankwest12345
13/03/2010 20:20:27 »

Hi Andrew, thanks for the comments. My armchair does indeed seat me lower than my knees so I have added some cushions to it. I usually do an eight mile walk three or four times a week, the only time I missed that was when we had the snow - maybe a couple of weeks at most.

I have already adapted to the eight inch bed height - interestingly, I find myself less inclined to stay in bed once I wake up, and find myself getting up as soon as it is light.

I will start compression stockings whilst sleeping, see if that helps.

I am now on day two of Serrapetase (60,000iu three times a day before food) and will also be adding Cayenne (inc Hawthorn) pills as this is reputed to have a highly stimulating effect on circulation.

BTW my mother's side of the family suffers from vv, my uncle had huge ones in both his legs but actually lived to 98, so we are talking bad genes here so if I can get rid of them anyone can (I am 53 BTW)... see what happens next
frankwest12345
23/03/2010 12:28:50 »

Well I have made a little progress after two weeks with IBT at eight inches, taking Serrapetase three times a day and lately added Cayenne twice a day. I have posted some details and photos on sites.google.com/site/varicoseveinsphotos/

Frank, thanks for providing photographs. The results so far are pretty impressive IMHO.

Very useful having photographs of before and after.
sites.google.com/site/varicoseveinsphotos/

I would like join in the study/documentation of I.B.T. and varicose veins.

I have had the doppler ultrasound testing and confirmed reflux in both legs.
As of 20APR, I have raised my bed 6in and taken photographs.

I have only seen positive comments, but so my v/veins have gotten worse in the first 19days.

Please advise which website I should be access and start posting?
(nakedscientist.com? inclinedbedtherapy.com? andrewfletcher.com?)

Hi Swimmer

This forum is fine to post. You could start your own thread to keep all your posts seperate aqnd easier to follow.

The veins in your pictures are different to the varicose veins that become swollen, these are fine spider veins thet many of us get as we add a few years on. Tight ankle socks are a primary cause, I note you have some around where the socks press on the lower shin, I too have the some of these right in the same place. Mine have not gotten worse over the years

I have read that horse chestnut may help with these, though have not yet tried it myself.

Also there is a new treatment that uses a microwave pen to seal off the veins with instantanious removal of spider veins. Lazer surgery also produces raid results. IBT helps for the much larger varicosed veins.

Hope this helps

Andrew