Varicose Vein Oedema Inclined Bed Therapy Study Alternative to Surgery

Andrew wrote:
introducing solutes even against the blood flow has been done by inducing complete reversal of the blood from the skin to the brain using exercise. Michel Cabanac, University Laval Canada using a doplar placed where the nose meets the eye. Cabanac Initially interpreted his results as the brain trying to cool itself and reversing the blood flow. Yet in Cabanac’s own words, there are no valves, so this cannot be the case.
That sounds interesting - could you send me a reference so I can give it a read?

B wrote:
My point was really about the differences in flow dynamics between arterial and venous blood - arterial blood is moving so quickly and at such high pressures that I would doubt solutes could move against it in any meaningful way.

M. Cabanac1 and H. Brinnel1
(1) Laboratoire de Physiologie associé au C.N.R.S. N? 180, Université Claude Bernard, C.H.U., Lyon-Sud, B. P. 12, F-69600 Oullins, France
Accepted: 12 April 1985
Summary The direction of the blood flowing in the emissary veins (vena emissaria mastoidea and v. e. partietalis) was recorded in human subjects during moderate hyperthermia and hypothermia. During hyperthermia the blood flowed rapidly from skin to brain. During hypothermia either no flow could be detected or the blood flowed slowly from brain to skin. On two fresh cadavers the calvaria was removed with the scalp adhering. Gentle massaging of the scalp produced abundant drops of blood on the inner surface of the bone each time the scalp was massaged, thus showing that cutaneous blood can flow inward through the bone. These results support the hypothesis of selective brain cooling in hyperthermic humans by offering a possible mechanism.
Key words Venous blood flow - Temperature regulation - Emissary veins - Brain cooling
News Physiol Sci 1: 41-44, 1986;
1548-9213/86 $5.00
News in Physiological Sciences, Vol 1, 41-44, Copyright © 1986 by International Union of Physiological Sciences
Keeping a Cool Head
M Cabanac
The mammalian brain has poor tolerance to increased temperature. However, when body core temperature rises during exercise or heat stress, the temperature of the brain can remain at a lower level, somewhat independent of the rest of the body. In several mammals the cooling of the brain is related to anatomically well-defined countercurrent heat exchangers. Humans lack these distinct anatomic structures, but significant cooling of the brain can nevertheless occur. Such selective cooling of the brain may have important medical implicantions.

Dean Falk www.anthro.fsu.edu/people/faculty/falk/radpapweb.htm

1. Role of emissary veins

Whole-body cooling takes place when arterial blood is cooled through the effects of evaporation of sweat from the body’s surface, a process that also contributes to regulation of brain temperature via its arterial supply. Michel Cabanac and Heiner Brinnel proposed an additional mechanism for selectively cooling the brain under conditions of intense exercise that results in hyperthermia. Because experimental evidence revealed that blood flows out of the cranium through the mastoid, ophthalmic and parietal emissary veins in hypothermic subjects but into the braincase in hyperthermic subjects, Cabanac and Brinnel reasoned that venous blood that is cooled at the head’s surface through the effects of evaporation on dilated veins is selectively delivered into the braincase under, and only under, conditions of hyperthermia (oral temperature of 37.6oC + 0.18o). The authors noted that innumerable, microscopic emissary veins exist in humans, and demonstrated (by massaging a cadaver’s skullcap) that blood is capable of flowing through this network from the outside of the skull to the diploic veins within the cranial bones and then to the inside of the braincase.

The three emissary veins that were used to record direction of blood flow are located at dispersed points of the network that supplies the entire skull: at the face (ophthalmic), behind the ear (mastoid), and at the top back part of the skull (parietal). (See Figure 1.) Cabanac and Brinnel concluded that when blood flows into the braincase in these three emissary veins, it also does so in the innumerable tiny veins that comprise the entire network. According to this hypothesis, venous blood cooled at the head’s surface under hyperthermic conditions flows into the braincase over a disperse network of tiny veins (the cranial radiator). This is a selective brain cooling mechanism that serves to keep brain temperature in check. Cabanac and Brinnel’s hypothesis became controversial among physiologists who claimed that existence of an anatomical network of cranial veins capable of delivering cooled blood into the braincase was speculative. This point will be returned to in Section III.

I'll give that a proper read soon. But my point still stands that it's practically impossible to introduce solutes that will move against the flow in arteries. I was only being pedantic that arteries were included in the list.

Ben, No it is not impossible to introduce a solute and cause the arterial blood flow to change direction, in fact it is highly probable that introducing solutes will slow down the arterial blood flow and cause circulatory collapse leading to respiratory failure followed by cardiac arrest. This can be observed in a simple tubular model showing two directional flow in the same tube, and has been observed many times by me and a few others by adding different coloured dyes to the solutes we can see for example a blue less dense fluid flowing up and a red more dense fluid flowing down, the turbulence caused by this effect shows how the arterial revered flow scenario is probable. The resulting back pressure generated by the falling solutes would pose considerable problems for the heart to overcome.

Also, using silicone or latex walled tubes we can show solutes inflating the wall of an inverted n tube and deflating the juxtapose solute free side showing clearly that solutes change the internal pressures of the model to a degree that is clearly visible with the naked eye
Video of experiment: HD Video of Silicon Tube Experiment:

This question is very basic. I have yet to receive one single reply as to why varicose veins shrink when the head of the bed is raised to +5 degree to the horizontal and flat bedrest is avoided for 4 weeks? If you are working in the Health Industry then you should want to know more about this and you should want to question why it is not mentioned in any literature.

If you don't have an answer then you should say "I don't have an answer" To ignore this question is not an option because I will continue to badger everyone until I get a statisfactory answer..

What happens when we sleep the opposite way round with our head down?


F. Louisy1 , C. Gaudin1, J. M. Oppert1 , A. Güell2 and C. Y. Guezennec1

(1) C.E.R.M.A. = Centre d'Etudes et de Recherches de Médecine Aérospatiale, Base d'Essais en vol, F-91228 Brétigny-sur-Orge Cedex, France
(2) Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales, Toulouse, France
(3) CNES-NASA = Centre National d'Etudes, Spatiales, National Aéronautics and Space Agency, France

Accepted: 18 April 1990

Summary Venous distensibility of the lower limbs was assessed in six healthy men who were submitted twice successively to 1 month of –6° head-down bedrest, with and without lower body negative pressure (LBNP) (LBNP subjects and control subjects, respectively). Venous capacity ( V v,max, in ml·100 ml–1) of the legs was determined by mercury strain gauge plethysmography with venous occlusion. Plethysmographic measurements were made on each subject before (Dc), during (D6 and D20) and after (5th day of recovery, D+5) bedrest. During bedrest, LBNP was applied daily, several times a day to the subjects submitted to this procedure. Results showed a gradual increase in V v,max (ml·100 ml–1) throughout the bedrest, both in the control group [ V v,max = 2.11 SD 0.54 at Dc, 2.69 SD 0.29 at D6, 4.39 SD 2.08 at D20, 2.39 SD 0.69 at D+5, P<0.001 (ANOVA)] and in the LBNP group [ V v,max = 2.07 SD 0.71 at Dc, 2.85 SD 1.19 at D6, 3.75 SD 1.74 at D20, 2.43 SD 0.94 at D+5, P<0.001 (ANOVA)], without significant LBNP effect. These increases were of the same order as those encountered during spaceflight. It is concluded that –6° head-down bedrest is a good model to simulate the haemodynamic changes induced by exposure to weightlessness and that LBNP did not seem to be a good technique to counteract the adverse effects of weightlessness on the capacitance vessels of the lower limbs. This latter conclusion raises the question of the role and magnitude of leg venous capacitance in venous return and cardiac regulation.
Key words Vein haemodynamics - Bedrest - Lower body negative pressure - Venous return

This study was part of a joint CNES — NASA project designed to evaluate the efficiency of periodic lower body negative pressure exposures to prevent microgravity effects on certain physiological parameters (orthostatic tolerance, work capacity, muscle changes, etc.... in order to prepare the future manned space missions Hermes and Colombus.

Paul:
Andrew, i may have asked this before...
But, how did you arrive at the 6 inches or 5 degree angle? Why not 8 , or 3 degrees?

Going higher than 6 degrees means your comfort is compromised as you move down the bed. So there is a trade off from not sliding down the bed.

Originally I was trying to find a way to determine the optimum angle for circulation according to the way solutes are moved when suspended or dissolved in liquid.

As I was experimenting with fluids in clear plastic tubes, and observing how solutes rotate fluids in a closed loop of tubing, the downward flowing solute added side suspended vertically, representing the phloem in trees and the arteries in the human body, while the upward flowing less dense solute free side representing the upward flowing xylem in trees and venous return in the human body.

So logically, to stretch this closed loop of water filled tubing from one end of the bed to the other and observing how solutes alter the steady state of fluids within to a powerful flow and return circulation when the bed is raised to 5 degrees. And to see a circulation where the solutes flow down one side of the loop of tubing and cause clean water to flow over the top of the downward flowing solute giving rise to a two directional flow with no overall rotation of the complete loop of tubing when raised lower than 4 degrees. Adding food colouring to solutes gives a clear visual picture of the flow and turbulence caused by the solutes as they move allows one to easily determine how the circulation is flowing.

The proof that the angle was correct came from several people who had experiences some pretty amazing results from varicose veins going flat or near flat within 4 weeks of avoiding a flat bed. This was the Eureka moment for me. It told me that solutes do alter the flow of fluids through the human body and that the pressure than had been causing the veins to bulge had now changed to a greatly reduced pressure pulling the veins in. And this can be the only answer as to why lowering the legs as opposed to raising them addresses oedema in the lower limbs by changing the direction of the flow back through the veins and into the main circulation where it is excreted in the urine.

Accept the challenge and go find a single explanation anywhere that addresses THE FACT that varicose veins are observed with the naked eye to substantially reduce in size when flat bed-rest is avoided by raising the head end of the bed 15 cm's higher than the foot end. This is not rocket science and anyone in their own home can repeat this, yet it is nowhere to be found in the literature. WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS THE CASE? Why is this not mentioned in Medical School? Why is it not mentioned in nursing and why does your doctor and surgeon continue to offer surgical procedures that do not address the reason why the veins are bulging in the first place?

Could Inclined Bed Therapy prevent many more circulation related medical problems and even reverse many of them preventing the unnecessary amputations and loss of life through gangrene and infections that we see in our hospitals in the year 2008?

Could tilting the bed prevent urinary tract infections and help to resolve blood pressure problems?


Andrew K Fletcher

Reply from BC
IS it in the mainstream medical literature? If not then you can hardly blame them for not knowing about it.
Is there a proper double blind study?
If not then they might get accused of "quackery", which, together with the threat of being sued might put a lot of them off mentioning it.

Getting sued for tilting a bed? Come on.... The medical profession tilt beds all the time! Maybe not correctly but they tilt them and don't get sued! So should they then be accused of quackery?

I have stated a fact and have been stating it since 1995. I have met with vascular surgeons, professors at Exeter University and Derriford Hospital for the purpose of setting up a controlled study to save the NHS countless £millions. Yet I have failed miserably to locate someone who is prepared to tilt beds for 4 weeks and measure the results to either disprove or prove what I have found to be true!

Just because it is not in the literature does not automatically warrant the label of quackery! It does however warrant further investigation and when this is proved WHICH IT UNDOUBTEDLY WILL BE! There will need to be some serious revision of the current physiology literature! And that my friend is a FACT!

These are photographs of my wife's leg taken 27/05/2008 and uploaded so that you can all see the marks where her vein once prominently bulged out yet now lays flat and is hardly visible. Jude was examined by a friend who is a doctor. She said that this was never a varicose vein. Believe me it used to bulge like a small egg and became very painful and unsightly, particularly when she walked up hills.

She added I had forgotten all about that until you just mentioned it. I can't even see it myself anymore.

Her vein went flat after only 4 weeks of IBT and has never troubled her since! That was over 14 years ago!

I Need your Help to set up a study. I can't do this alone. Believe me I have tried but without cooperation from either a hospital, a nursing home, medical school, a sleep study centre, a charity, a surgeon or even a doctor and his or her patients, it will mean that many people will continue to have surgery and will continue to put their lives at risk of infection and circulatory failure and more to the point repeated and totally unnecessary operations.

Inclined Bed Therapy costs nothing!

From an earlier attmpt to move this forward.

Andrew K Fletcher

Posts: 1150
United Kingdom

MessageID: 18045
25/06/2005 08:53:08 »

I would like to conduct a very simple study with varicose veins, oedema and leg ulcer, and would appreciate some help and guidance in achieving this.

Peter Lewis, a vascular surgeon from Torbay Hospital, has already tested the intervention and reported successful results. Professor Edzard Urnst, Exeter Hospital, and My own G.P. have expressed an interest in this exciting intervention.

So, I guess the question is, are there any doctors, surgeons, nurses who would be interested in lending a hand to test a simple intervention, which has been shown to be highly efficient in reducing / resolving all of these conditions in a pilot study?

Given that Nursing staffs suffer with varicosity, it could prove very rewarding for all concerned.

I look forward to your replies with interest

Respectfully yours

Andrew K Fletcher

Tel 01803 524117

chris
Hero Member

The Naked Scientist

MessageID: 18046
28/06/2005 09:27:19 »

Andrew

in this day and age of complete intellectual destitution and the perception that all doctors are evil and incapable of treating their patients with an ounce of respect, before you go near anyone with a feasibility study you'll need to have filled in a 56-page long COREC ethics form.

And then wait ages whilst a bunch of loony-lefty control freaks decide that they want 500 pages more information, and evnetually you might get permission to do something.

This bull**** is paralysing research in this country now. The days of being able to test a good idea on a few anonymous samples, to see whether it justifies a grant application, are gone.

I'm currently wading through all this rubbish. I spent about a week on the grant application, tops, and then then last week filling in a forum twice the length, to get ethical approval to study DNA extracted from a whole bunch of anonymous breast cancers.

The very people that this lunacy is designed to protect - the public - are going to become victims because the discoveries that would have been made are going to take far longer to uncover, so the human health benefits will be lost for many.

Chris

Andrew K Fletcher
MessageID: 18536
18/07/2005 07:50:08 »

Almost missed your post Chris.

Have already approached the Torbay Ethical Committee regarding ethical approval.

Their reply was, they did not believe ethical approval was required for this particular “Proposed Study” as the inclined bed is used in hospitals to help with Reflux on incubators and adult beds, and is already therefore approved.

Because no drugs are involved and the principle is obvious and has been tested over many years to be safe in its short term use, I can see no obstacle in our way, other than trying to obtain funding, albeit comparatively miniscule funding.
The problem is that drug companies hold the purse strings on 99% of trial/study funding, and have little interest in funding non-drug related research.

Sorry I missed your post Chris

Andrew

chris
Hero Member
So what do you need funding for ?

Chris

Andrew K Fletcher
Hero Member

MessageID: 18573
18/07/2005 21:02:48 »

Chris, if the results from this proposed study are from a self funded study and do not involve the medical community in any way, the results will be ignored as you well know, and as I have already observed.

Funding would be required to pay for any professional people who would like to get involved. I myself would be glad to work for free in order to prove the efficacy of the inclined bed therapy as a means to provide a long term care environment for patients with oedema, varicose veins, leg ulcers and thromboembolisms.

Unless you know of professional people that would like to help in the study without charging for their services, which I think would be unfair, given the need to monitor the people taking part.

Any ideas on the best way forward would be greatly appreciated.

Andrew



quote: Originally posted by chris

So what do you need funding for ?

Chris