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Reply #80 on: 09/05/2005 18:26:47 »
I'm going to move this thread to the 'cells' forum shortly, so look out for it there...
TNS
Dave:
Although most of the discussion has been on physics, the question is actally biology, and a lot of the evidence is microscopic.
Dave: We have been through this before, but this is true of the xylem and water will be drawn up a dead tree, but not of the Phloem which is a complex bi-directional sugar and mineral transport system, not the downwards only pipe that is needed for your theories.
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Rosy:
quote:But to hide this thread from the view of people who are interested in physics and fluid dynamics is nothing short of censorship at best!
...and *that* is nothing short of paranoia at best.
It is a slightly odd feature of this site that it doesn't have a more general "plants" section but no-one doubts that your results physically occurred in your tube experiments, that the weight of the solution is causing the flow.
Anyone interested in how plants work will be interested in cells too, and will be looking at that part of the website too.
If you're that worried you could always post a new thread solely about the physics of your demos... maybe even with a little more explanation of how your ideas accord with things like the principle of conservation of energy (unless you're ruling that out too? I haven't worked that out).
You could even explain the principles by which (on about page one) you reckon you can get water at the top of your loop given that the water in it must be a negative pressure.
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Dave:
If you connect a large tube and a small tube together in teh way you suggest it will work, however water is not being gained or lost from the tubes, so the flow in litres/second will be the same in the big tube as the small tube, the velocity in the big tube will just be slower.
The down bottle fills up by the same amount as the up bottle empties doesn't it?
If the up pipe is 12mm and the down pipe is 6mm, to test this colour the saline red and the water in the up bottle blue you will see that when the red drops all the way down the pipe the blue will lift up about 1/4 as far as the saline drops. so you have lifted 4times as much water 1/4 of the distance as the saline dropped - so overall water has just moved from one bottle to another.
A tree lifts water to it's leaves ans 98% of it evaporates, your model lifts water to the top then all of it comes back down. The two are not equivalent at all!!!
I am the people at my homepage so that won't really help - and at no point have I argued with the results of your experiments just your interpretations of them, so doing the experiments wouldn't necessarily help, although I would be happy to come and see yours at some point when I am in Devon and not too busy.
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