I have also seen, like the author of the above, many illnesses improve after doing liver flushes, even allergies have disappeared. Throughout the years as I did liver flushes just to promote health...I always got out many stones....at one point I was doing them twice a month ..just to see if the stones would stop. They didn't.
Now after 6 months on IBT I just did a liver flush and there are hardly any stones...mainly bile. This is in line with Andrews research that liver, gall, and kidney stones are exacerbated by microgravity, as NASA found. Note sleeping flat induces a kind of microgravity as well.
I am very happy with this result....after trying many things to disappear liver stones.
I find this recent liver flush of yours very astonishing indeed that you found NO soft green balls at all?
Can you please post the instructions that you use for your liver flushes because I just don't trust the majority of websites since my last bad experience many years ago with a liver flush.
My experience of a liver flush a few years ago was a truly negative one, which involved consuming at least four heaped tablespoons of epsom salts over a few hours, which left me on the toilet for a full 12 hours or more with very painful diarrhea, but I may be willing to try one again if I have both the proper instructions, and a sound logical understanding of the process.
I do believe that these flushes are indeed causing the liver to flush out debris, but I think the debris that is TRULY being flushed out of the liver is mostly very small, and contains many pathogens and parasites both alive and entombed that are being eliminated, which is why these flushes obviously do make people feel better.
I think the amount of oil that the liver is being forced to cope with in one session is so huge, that the liver is ultimately being forcefully stressed into working purely in overdrive, and in doing this it creates vastly more bile flow than it normally would, which then dislodges a lot of the parasites and debris that are then eliminated from the bowels, along with the vast majority of the unprocessed olive oil.
I drank down a full pint or more of olive oil when I did it in a few years ago and it was very tough to keep down, so no doubt it would be difficult for the liver to process all that, if not impossible, hence I think the reason most are expelled unprocessed.
Maybe those half inch balls initially started out very tiny and accumulate like that during the digestion process after they came out of the ducts, I just don't know, but both of these scenarios make more sense to me than what many websites say when they try to convince me that an object half an inch in diameter (I had scores of these come out) can fit through a bile duct that can stretch at best quarter of an inch - aided with epsom salts - let alone through the smaller liver ducts themselves.
If you do have any information that I can read to better understand this process then please do post it, but please feel free to correct anything here you think I may have wrong...and also post your own instructions too!
A pint of oil is way too much. Originally I used DrClarks instructions...then a bit of Ken Presners, then Andreas Moritz. The main thing is to do a proper parasite herbal cleanse prior to the cleanse....like a month. Some say lots of apple juice the week leading to the cleanse. Then on the day you have to be strict and not eat any oil or protein....only fruit...yes most fruit have a few grams of protein, but the idea is not to trigger the liver to release any bile. The best cleanse I have had is when I ate nothing at all...just water till 2 pm when nothing must go into the mouth.
Have played around with citric acid...ozonating the oil, etc etc....but keep it simple...ignore the ornithine.
Yes there are lots of theories and speculation about exactly what comes out of the bile ducts, someone I knew who had bone cancer and was wheelchair bound got out a stone the size of a small orange...it broke into 3 pieces which she put together....only then did she get out of her health rut. I myself have gotten out 6 jet black stones....almost an inch in diameter....that were wheel bearing grease!!! From the water pipes no doubt! Trust me....the common bile duct is quite large....and once relaxed by magnesium sulphate ..will relax enough to release quite large pieces of debris. ,!! Analyses and speculation aside....experience has shown us strange things with cleanses...another cancer patient of mine had living parasites. DrCalrk emphasized parasite herbs first though...otherwise you make yourself sick.
This last cleanse produced a few stones yes..... (said 'hardly any stones') one was an inch and a half long...cylindrical, half an inch in diameter....very clearly from a duct!! But nowhere near the last over hundred cleanses...I am not kidding mate...over a hundred. Sometimes they would be deep green, bright green, brown, black, all shades..many many. Each time you get a surge of energy and the recovery of some senses...once my taste became so acute I couldn't stand cutlery...could taste the metal from a fork. Another time...my eyesight suddenly improved. Another time suddenly I could smell all sorts of stuff....!
It would appear that the liver has a holographic attachment to most processes in the body...and as more of it is freed, one recovers many seemingly unrelated issues. My health imroved drastically then....but started deteriorating a couple of years ago to my surprise....which I now attribute to spinal issues and lymph stagnation. All along didn't change my diet much...we have better beef here than Argentina so one would be a nut to avoid such wonderful meat. Good luck
Have patients that have halved their liver transaminases , SGOT, etc, using cleanses. Their doctors outright refused to believe this, suggesting initial false medicals. Have had many laughs like that. Until I studied emotional plague then saw the seriousness of it all. Have another patient that averted a liver transplant....diagnosed with sclerosis then cirrhosis of the liver. She still has her original liver now almost a decade later. Even her own relatives said the doctors had been wrong....( rather than deal with believing that I had cured her). So for me, the liver cleanse is one of the most powerful modalities....despite all the theories.
Those instructions do indeed look familiar and I also did a week of completely raw food and drank gallons of apple juice and water too. I remember only eating a it of raw fruit through the cleanse day but mostly nothing...more like a fast.
In fact it may not have been a complete pint of olive oil as I am going from memory, but it was a full pint of liquid as I used a pint glass and knocked it all back in one go...I remember thinking it wasnt too bad despite all that oil lol, but almost puked up simply by moving...probably was way more oil though...those instructions suggest half oil and half citrus combined to make 360ml, which is nearly a pint so it may be that I drank the same amount of oil...
I have no doubt whatsoever that the liver cleanse is vital for good health, but I think we first must understand the process of what is happening before we do too many of them...as the liver will indeed be getting somewhat stressed by all that oil in one sitting ( 1600 calories! ) it will be forced to produce lots of bile but can never hope to break down all that fat in one sitting (especially while asleep), thus you will definitely have undigested fats inside the stools - many of these "stones" float which is certainly an indication of fats.
If there are also other liver problems such as damage by terrible lifestyles or alcohol abuse or drug abuse or whatever, then we might want to involve other methods first before doing multiple liver cleanses...even Dr Clark says in her book that liver cleanse should only really be done once plenty of zapping has been done, and ideally after a kidney cleanse too...and I do note that you yourself suggest herbal cleanse before hand which is sound advice...unfortunately too many people (myself included) tend to jump in at the deep end when desperate and believe any old website, and as there are loads out there citing liver cleanses, we need to be careful of what they tell us and try to look at more scientific approaches than following blindly what one of those sites says - which I obviously did in the past to my detriment - MY BUM WAS BUGGERED FOR WEEKS
Also regarding the bile secretion...We probably dont produce bile on the DAY of diarrhea cleansing as no fats are eaten, but we have already produced lots of it in the preceding 7-10 hours after we drank the 180ml or more of fats in one go...this would coincide perfectly with the time it takes to complete the digestion of these fats by the bile secreted, while also bringing forth any debris from the liver - mostly due to the increased bile flow which is in turn stimulated by the initial overload of all that oil, and facilitated by the epsom salts relaxing the bile ducts.
The common bile duct has been stated many times in medical literature to be an average of 4mm - 7mm (0.16 to 0.28 inches) especially during routine ultra scans. People who have large ducts usually up to around 11mm are the elderly, and those suffering from extreme gall stone blockage...and also depends on where the bile duct is measured as one of the below links shows....
The small intestine itself in a NORMAL healthy person is only one inch in diameter, but I have no doubt that some people will have less than this and may well be the true reason for something half an inch in diameter and following a pattern of coming out of a "duct"...these same size and shaped stools have been reported quite a number of times in people who are NOT doing a liver cleanse, but are simply following an intestinal elimination program, and the shapes and horrid black colours of some of these excretions clearly show something that has been lodged within the small intestines for many years.
Sure with epsom salts the liver ducts will indeed relax, but they are not going to allow something the size of a golf ball through and it stretches my imagination to believe that...I much prefer the more logical idea that lots of tiny stones and debris are leaving the liver via the cleanse, and they are building up in size within the intestines, and it is here that the larger balls are actually formed. That makes more sense to me.
An important point I would make also here is to never to rely on memory for details of an event, and always record anything to do with health SPECIFICALLY in a diary. Memory is a very poor judgment tool even when you have a good memory...I have training in memory techniques from years ago, and have used these techniques on many social occasions in the past and recited the entire suit order of multiple packs of cards after only minutes of memorizing them, but if I relied on my memory of what I did last year regards my health without consulting my health diary, I would fail utterly to remember the details specifically...unless of course I applied a memory technique, which I mostly dont!
We may not agree entirely on the details but at least we probably agree that a liver cleanse is indeed a positive exercise when done correctly. Life would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything lol
Dr Clark used herbs for parasite cleanses as well as the zapper. She said the stones usually had parasites in them...and if we didn't do a parasite cleanse then the stones would not be released easily. The Epsom salts is supposed to relax the bile ducts so they can stretch. I never went in to the medical arguments about whether it was really liver stones coming out...to me they were. They is no way intestinal material can look that way....I took many out to look at closely. They came out of the liver....I used to hunt quite a bit and know how bile smells even when an animal is being skinned and butchered. Nowadays I do an enema after the 8 pm salts.
But this isn't the main reason I used to do liver cleanses...it's the EFFECT it had on my health. I doubt you can fully appreciate what over a hundred liver cleanses means....over a decade. Each one is unique...in feeling and what comes out. I have had the knackered bum ones as well. When I started ozonating the oil I woke at 3 am and omitted badly. When citric acid was introduced by DrClark the stones increased. I had have a few that no stones came out...just chaff and almost powdered bile....especially when I did them close together. Then...I have had dozens of patients do them...some even brought me the stones in bottles to show me. They are definitely liver stones...even their shape is testimony. So for me it's not a matter of medical logic...it's what I have seen. We spent quite a bit of effort and research trying to understand why the stones kept reforming. DrClark then suggested it was Fasciola parasite infestation, so we used to drink the whole black walnut tincture at a go. Others suggested changes in diet. The stones kept coming. Now I see they are almost all gone. I will do another in two weeks to reconfirm. Then another a month later. A good cleanse is comfortable....no nausea, no pangs, yes there is watery diarrhea but it shouldn't be painful...then you know you have done it correctly. Then when you get the feeling of alertness the next day you are somehow hooked. A colon cleanse or flush isn't the same...and the stuff that comes out is different from the liver. One patient of mine had their high blood pressure disappear the night of the cleanse...said he felt something give! That doesn't happen with colon cleanses. Like most things in life...we usually are where we need to be.
I know what you are saying and it could well be they are liver stones, and I am open to that possibility but many things for me point more to the GI that accumulates the smaller liver debris as I stated quite clearly earlier.
After learning more about the anatomy of the liver, and communicating to another specialist, and also other medical experts too (I havent forgotten you are also a medical expert) and knowing that without doubt these very same things can come from the GI system after consuming such a volume of fat in one sitting, then for me I prefer the explanation I gave earlier...BTW, I have also hunted game in my life and also know the smell of and look of bile - accidently burst a few bile sacks too - but then the presence of bile would have to be there whether something came from the liver or not, simply because of the amount that is needed by the liver to even attempt to process that amount of fat - remember, 1600 calories of fat alone in one sitting, 180grams is almost three times the daily RDA!
Also its not entirely correct to say that things like these never come out of people doing GI elimination protocols...even pure water fasting can produce these dramatic effects of black hollow tubes coming out that were stuck to the small intestines for years, even keeping the shape...talk with Tony Pantalleresco and he will tell you many of the different disgusting things that come out when doing many different types of GI elimination...
I think we both have covered a good amount here and show that there is a possibility that these could be large liver stones, just as easily as they could be accumulated smaller liver stones and debris (from the liver) that collects into a large ball of mass while inside the intestines, that are also coated in more than normal amounts of bile.
My only disagreement with you here like I said from the start, is that I don't believe its likely that golf ball sized lumps are being removed from the bile ducts, and for me its more likely they are lumps formed that way in the GI tract from smaller debris ejected out of the liver...whereas you are absolutely certain that all this is 100% liver stones...again not an approach I prefer to take personally mate.
I also dont agree with naysayers on other websites when they dismiss liver cleanses entirely as being simply the entire remains of coalesced olive oil...that type of thinking is too simplistic and things are rarely that simple in health as I know you know this too.
I simply say SOME of it is unprocessed olive oil, and some of it is liver debris and small stones...I cannot personally hold the view that ALL the stool remains that look like stones are from the liver...that for me is less likely...I think the even fact that all these hundreds of fatty balls "just keep coming" from such a relatively small volume in the liver, even after a hundred liver cleanses at a rate of one per month, also lends to the idea that some of that volume of stools is down to the 1600 calories of fats you consume to do the flush...what goes in will come out.
I once again typed far far too much to thoroughly explain my point and hope you do understand what my stance is...that I do agree with you 100% that they are definitely beneficial, but I err on the side of caution to believe something so big is coming out of the ducts in one go...I also would not personally go overboard and do hundreds of them, but I will no doubt be doing a few over the next year and report my findings to you all.
I think everything is possible but I side with what is more likely. That is my approach now and had I used that approach a years ago I would have saved a lot of money - even within the last two years.
Thanks for this discussion Ozone, it has been interesting and I hope people reading this will find the points of interest to them as well.
I know you understand what I am saying but its not always easy to convey these things when reading and writing large posts.
Also understand that I fully respect your opinion as a medical expert and you know more than most doctors and even most people, but I will always make up my own mind from the opinions of more than just one medical expert.
Well said mate. Other people claim to have taken the stones for lab analyses and proved they were from the liver. Others say this showed they were soap made from consuming the oil. Note people doing extended colon cleanses eventually also get the stones coming out. Now...all arguments aside...maybe you will try one another day. For me, doesn't matter which explanation is correct. I will probably continue doing a few more...but the last one I did got out not even ten 'stones' ..so something definitely is going on with the IBT.
Yes that is the original point of your creating this thread that is of interest to me...we got a little sidetracked in the details!
IBT is clearly doing something interesting in that you no longer produce that amount of stones...this is where it would be far more essential to study more people doing liver cleanses who are also on IBT compared with those not...not an easy task really as most people are not even reporting about IBT!
Yes let me know the results. Thing is though ultra sound might not show soft cholesterol lumps...there isn't enough density contrast. One of the issues that causes all the controversy....stones only show when they harden and calcify.
The medical debate is also a good analogy for emotional plague...you would think people would sort themselves out...it's easy to prove what exactly is coming out of the bum during a liver flush..instead people argue and get emotional when they suspect they may be wrong all along....then they don't even try it or have experience with it. Strange world hey.
I know ultra sound may not produce results but it will show obvious stones if they are calcified, which is only reason I am having it done, and also if it shows nothing I will not assume I have none - clearly everyone has them.
Regards the medical debate, I assume you mean the naysayers on other sites when you speak about emotional plague, and not my valid arguments clearly and well presented in two long posts...nothing emotional about my posts there...just my logical conclusion reached by not making definite assertions about where something is coming from without true scientific visuals, which is virtually impossible in this current barbaric society with its simplistic medical theories.
I personally don't label anyone else as having emotional plague simply because they disagree with me, and I also understand that we actually are all emotionally plagued...all of us...Personally, I don't like to use the term emotional plague because its just not specific enough, and somewhat an umbrella term used to encompass several different things for why people have so many belief problems...tradition, indoctrination and traumatic births all cause emotional plague...ADHD is another umbrella term used to lump every kid and adult suffering a variety of symptoms under one title...I am finding emotional plague is also like an umbrella term, and is non specific.
Jacque Fresco has nailed what emotional plague is to a tee...that is how I understood what emotional plague was all these years and only recently heard of that term from yourself.